Below, you will find her letter with my respond woven in in Red. At the Bottom (starting with "An Open Letter to Theist" in white print), you will find a letter I wanted to write back to her. I recently emailed them to her and look forward to her response, which of course I will post if it happens. I hope you enjoy and please share your thoughts!
This is very philosophical in nature. As I say in the letter, the only way to really "know" God is through a relationship with him. But it is still fun to debate points and hopefully break down some intellectual barriers in people's minds so God can work in their hearts.
Here is the email I sent her: (REMEMBER, my writing is in red print, hers is in white. Until about half way through starting in white print "An Open Letter To Atheists", that is also my writing)
My writing is in bold and red
Note: I deleted some of the questions to shorten the piece a bit. The questions I deleted either posed no actual challenge to theism and deleted posts that I, for the most part, agreed with (“the separation of church and state”).
First of all, I am an atheist. Most likely one of the most adamant atheists you’ll ever meet. Let’s talk about why, and what it is that’s got me completely fed up with a good number of believers of almost any stripe.
There is only one simple reason that I am atheist. There is ample evidence that the concept of gods is entirely man made, and additionally, made from ignorance. Most theists have difficulty with this, yet as a friend of mine says, we atheists simply believe in one less god than you Christians (or Jews, or Moslems, etc) do. I have yet to find a Christian who has difficulty agreeing with me that Zeus or Poseidon ever existed… yet they cling to the ridiculous short-circuited rationalization that their god does exist.
I believe in God because I’ve looked at the evidence and believe it points overwhelmingly towards God being real.
“But the Bible says…" Hey. I don’t believe in gods so obviously I don’t believe in god-authored books, and therefore I have no interest whatsoever in arguing your quotations with you.
Fine. Don’t believe the Bible is God authored. But you must still give it a chance as a historical document. First, the Bible is more of a library than a book. It contains poetry, history, allegory, letters. Etc. It has different authors (Paul, Peter, Luke, David, etc.), so expect different writing styles.
Next, it is one of the best-preserved and historically backed up books from that time. It has witnesses and it contains the closest eye-witness accounts to Jesus and therefore can be trusted. But don’t take my word for it—by all means, do your own research.
“How can you be moral and ethical without religion to guide you?” Perhaps theists consider themselves too dimwitted to sort out right from wrong, but I don’t feel that we humans really have that problem. More seriously, ethics and morals are very easily proven to be man-made - societally driven, in fact. That’s precisely why ethics and morals differ between cultures and groups. We can see, as communications become more global, that morals are becoming more similar around the world. The United Nations is a good example of politics trying to keep up with societal mores. We don’t do ‘bad’ things because ‘bad’ things ultimately make our lives more difficult.
You mention that ethics and morals are man-made and societally driven. Let me ask this: had Adolf Hitler succeeded in taking over the world and killed everyone who disagreed with him so that 100% of the world are now Nazi’s, would that now make what Hitler did “morally acceptable”? If morals are societally driven, this must be so.
While it is true that sometimes we don’t do bad things because they make our lives more difficult, that’s not always the case. In an evolutionary worldview of “Survival of the Fittest”, would not the best and most efficient thing for society to do be euthanizing the elderly that can no longer take care of themselves or killing children that are born mentally and physically handicapped? But something tells us this is wrong. There have been atheistic worldviews that have, correctly, led to this, as it is the only road to travel in the atheists world.
“What about miracles?” What about them? Never saw one, did you?
Have you ever seen The Queen of England in person? Unlikely, but there are people who have. As is the case with miracles. Millions throughout history have claimed to. Are you prepared to call them all liars or insane? Have you ever seen the process of evolution happen? Of course not, you take it on faith.
But I would venture to say of course you’ve seen a miracle. The chances of life on earth being created randomly out of the Big Bang has the same chances of happening as a tornado ripping through a junkyard and producing a running vehicle. That’s not a miracle? The fact that you are alive right now is not a miracle?
“But I have a personal relationship with God!” So, if I said I have a personal relationship with Harvey, whom you cannot see, would you find that comforting? I find these ‘personal relationships’ with the unembodied to be downright scary. I prefer my relationships with those I can actually encounter on a physical plane, and further, I distrust anyone who really thinks such supernatural two-way relationships are real. If he or she can err that badly when facing reality, why should I trust him or her about anything?
And of course, we can look at history to show us just how dangerous this divine certainty is. Find me a war which wasn’t, at least in large part, based on religious beliefs. Or which used religious beliefs to fire up the footsoldiers. God is always on our side, no matter who we are. Look at the overwhelming destruction of native cultures by ‘missionaries’. What a bunch of self-serving hypocrites, to presume to be so much better than everyone else in the world that they must change everyone to match themselves. Don’t even get me started.
1) I would consider your personal relationship with Harvey scary, yes. Unless, of course, millions of other people had a relationship with Harvey and there was ample evidence supporting his existence. Then I suppose I would begin to think there was something wrong with myself.
2) Read “Atheist Delusions” by David Bentley Hart. As he notes in his book (that has won numerous worldwide awards): “The number of wars that one could plausibly say have actually been fought on behalf of anything one might call “ethical monotheism” is so vanishingly small that such wars certainly qualify as exceptions to the historical rule.”
While it is true that many have claimed to have God on their side, you have to look no further than the Bible to find out that humans lie and will seek power above God. This, sadly, has happened. But let’s say I preach in my church “On Behalf of Carol Roper” and preach the gospel—does that mean that you actually support the gospel? Just because someone claims to have your support means very little.
Now, the big stuff… Creationism, Intelligent Design, the Pledge of Allegiance, our ‘Christian Nation’. TV evangelists. Jesus Fish. evil atheism. You know, your t-shirts, diamond and gold crucifix jewelry, Jesus tatoos and window signs proclaiming your religion wouldn’t bother me a bit, if you didn’t wear with them the attitude that those of us who don’t agree are ‘evil’. While we’re at it, the very concept of ‘evil’ drives me bonkers. Evil carries with it a connotation of source - Satan, and a judgement of superiority by those judging. The bad angel who’s getting punished forever, so who is out to drag all humans down with him. Sounds like an anime farce. Bad things do happen. So do good things. And so do many things which are neither bad nor good.
It really does sound like a story. That’s what’s so beautiful—it is. It is the greatest story ever told. Evil and, in Christian talk, “sin” does not by itself exist. Much as darkness does not exist. Darkness is simply the absence of light. Likewise, evil (or sin) is the absence of ultimate good (i.e. God).
“What’s wrong with Intelligent design?”, you ask. Well, for starters, it’s religion, not science. Teach it as religion if you feel like it, in your churches, but do not expect me to ‘consider’ it as science! Don’t even try and teach that absurdity to my kids. Now, our stupid (yes, he is dimwitted, clearly) President (NOTE: written during G W Bush's reign of terror) wants to teach ID in science classes. Good grief. For chrissakes, folks, EVOLUTION IS A FACT. If you want to argue with me, at least get that much right!
That is all I expect.
Is that really too much to ask?
Actually, intelligent design is a science. I’ve heard atheist, scientist and biologist Richard Dawkins say intelligent design could be true if it were some evolved species of aliens. Religion is the study of the supernatural. Intelligent design could (but not necessarily) deal with the natural world and would therefore fall under the (sometimes too large) umbrella of science.
Evolution, however, has also not been proven as a fact. That is why its official name is the “theory of evolution”. Theories necessarily do not equal facts. There are respectable, non-religious scientist who deny the theory. But I think it’s truthfulness has little effect on God’s existence.
In conclusion, it seems to me that Christians have left a bad taste in your mouth. You seem very turned off by the crazy, fundamentalist Christians you see on Fox News. Unfortunately, I believe you have a serious lack of true Christians in your life. Sincere followers of Christ. Below, I would like to write my own letter back to you.
An Open Letter to Atheist,
First of all, I am a Christian and one of the most adamant Christians you will ever meet. This letter is about what has been so exceedingly frustrating to myself and other Christians—a whole host of strawmen that have been erected to attack Christianity.
There is one reason I am a Christian: I myself have investigated the claims (philosophically) that God exists and after arriving at theism, investigated (historically) Jesus’ claim to be God.
My wish in writing this is not to produce a silly debate, but provide solid reasons and a strong defense for Jesus being God and what Christians really believe. Here are random points that I believe to be secure evidence for the existence of God, and not only God, but that God being revealed in the person of Jesus.
I could rant on about why I dislike atheism and the logical fallacies I think it poses, but I’d like to explain to you what I believe and why.
First, when we see a building, we assume it has both an architect and a builder. Even if we don’t yet know the architect and builder, we know they have to exist and automatically assume the building was not simply the result of a tornado ripping through and building it or that the building designed and constructed itself. That’s simple logic. Yet we throw that out when postulating on how the earth might have been formed. Not only is the earth amazingly fine-tuned for life (even agnostic Stephen Hawking admits the earth is perfectly arranged for life, and that would be an incalculably low probability of happening by chance), but the fact that there IS an earth at all shows us it has a designer. Even if it is the result of the big bang, the first atom still had to be created in some way. God, who is outside of space and (more importantly for this) time does not need to be created.
Next, I think we would all agree that a firefighter running into a burning building to save the life of a child is not the result of selfish ambition, but an innate, altruistic response. If we have simply evolved, there would be no objective moral values. We have objective moral values that without God could not exist. As Brother Ivan notes in Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamozov, “if there is no God, everything is permissible.” While on the subject of characteristics we are born with, there is a desire inside all of us for a transcendent being, or God (hence, all these different religions). We have a desire for food--food exists. We have a desire for sex--sex exists. We have a desire to be in a relationship with a transcendent, loving being--one must exist.
Now you use your reason to conclude there is no God. If no God exists and we are simply here by accidental evolution (i.e. evolution with no God behind it), then reason would be nothing but random chemical firings in our brains, so we would have no justification in trusting our reason. Any materialist reason that tells you that God doesn’t exist is therefore invalidated.
Now to the sources. I believe the Bible is in some sense inspired by God, but let’s for a moment take it as nothing but another historical document. It is a historical account and the closest historical, eyewitness account we have to the person of Jesus (who no serious historian denies the existence of). Therefore, in any discussion of Jesus, the Bible must be given some credence. Not to mention it does very well in any document analysis questioning its validity.
I know many atheist like to pit science against religion, and I think this is a shame. Whether Evolution is a fact or not is a moot point. Honestly, I couldn’t care less whether it is true. Knowing (as Saint Augustine did about 1500 years before Darwin) that Genesis was written in a very distinct, allegorical style, whether or not the earth was created in 7 days or 50 bajillion years is irrelevant. Everyday people turn to atheism because of science and completely miss the utter ignorance of it. About 60 years ago, Russians went to space and back and upon returning to earth, claimed they had not found God and therefore he doesn’t exist. CS Lewis retorted: “That would be like Hamlet going into his attic to look for Shakesphere.” God is reveled in nature, but God is not in nature. He, by definition, exists outside of nature. And science, by definition, studies nature. Not only are the two not at war and do not disprove themselves, it would be logically incoherent to believe science disproves God.
Onto where my entire religion rests: Jesus. There are Biblical and extra-Biblical resources that prove the existence of Jesus. There is very little doubt among anyone in the historical community that Jesus lived, was crucified then people claimed to see him 3 days later. The question is whether he rose from the dead or if something else is going on.
A) I would ask you to consider the disciples. They have just seen their Master (to whom they have devoted their entire lives) murdered and are now huddled in a locked room fearing they might be next. Did these uneducated fishermen get a sudden burst of courage, invent a story, pay off hundreds of other witnesses and then die horrible, martyrs deaths for something they knew was a lie? I think that is a tough question to answer for the atheist.
B) Consider the witnesses. Whether it be the 500 who were living and witnessed his resurrection or Roman Historian Josephus, all the evidence points to the resurrection, or to Jesus being seen after his death. (As for the rather nonsensical idea that perhaps Jesus never actually died and then appeared, the Romans were some of the best in history at what they did. The fact that Jesus survived the flogging is surprising enough, but to survive the cross? Humanly impossible. But even if the miracle did happen of him surviving that, he was seen on the road to Emmaus, seven miles from Jerusalem. After the flogging alone, excluding the cross, it would have likely been weeks before he could even stand and walk about the house, much less walk seven miles.)
C) There is only one piece of legitimate evidence against the resurrection: a man rose from the dead, which goes against natural law. However, if you believe in God, this is no longer a problem, as God can break natural law when he wants. The virgin birth and resurrection are hardly a challenge to faith.
So I know God exists because he appeared as a man on earth and proved it. No other religions can claim that God came to earth and then claimed to be God. At least no other legitimate ones. Jesus claims, if he was in fact not God, would be those of a mad man (in today’s terms: think of a homeless man from Detroit claiming to be God). A mad man who started the biggest revolution in the history of earth and what happens after the revolutionary leader dies? The movement gets bigger. This seems incompatible with the rest of history. Having a degree in History, this is no small point.
In conclusion, I know that religion and Christianity is not perfect. Christians mess up(again—the Bible is the first to admit that). As Ghandi said “Christians are so unlike their Christ.” Sadly this is true. Sometimes we commit acts of hatred, ignorance and bigotry and, regrettably, use the Bible to justify them at times. I apologize on behalf of this. But religion is far from being a poison. Surely, no other institution in the history of earth has looked after the sick and poor as the church.
But excuse us if we sometimes feel “in your face”. You must understand what Christians know to be true—the world is sick and dying and going to a place of eternal punishment, and we have the cure. Look at it like this: if I knew I had the cure to cancer and you had cancer, but were skeptical of my treatment and constantly resisted it, could you blame me for being “in your face” or persevering? Hopefully, this is done in love.
Again, I don’t want to start senseless, inane arguments. But these questions are not small and I hope (and yes, pray) that I consider your points and you consider mine with open minds…for your life could depend on it. This letter was only a snapshot of centuries of apologetical and philosophical work and only scratches the surface of the most important questions mankind has ever faced.
I hope you are familiar with court terms, because this is a tough case. These points do not lead the verdict to be “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Only my relationship with God gives me that. After analyzing the points, however, and seeing all the evidence continually point to God, I do think it classifies as “clear and convincing evidence” and would hold up in a court of law.
The truth is, I am a very rational and evidence driven person. I always need to see the facts. And after giving it some serious thought, I just don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.
Respectfully,
Derek
